Rheinmetall chief Papperger: "Robots are coming"

Germany wants to significantly expand its defence capabilities. But it is no longer just about more ammunition and missiles. Air defence, drones and new technologies such as humanoid robots and space systems are also playing an increasingly important role.

Rheinmetall chief executive Armin Papperger talks about rearmament, current bottlenecks – and which weapon systems could be decisive in the future.

At the keel-laying of the third Class 424 fleet service vessel in Wolgast, we spoke to Papperger about Germany's arms production, the role of the Skyranger and the weapons of the future.

Euronews: Mr Papperger, in March you said missile stocks were worryingly low. What is the situation now?

Papperger: I think that is still the case. You cannot ramp up missile production that quickly, and that is why we at Rheinmetall are launching a major investment programme – and we are not the only ones, many manufacturers are doing the same.

There are enormous bottlenecks in missile motors, but also in warheads, and we have to get much, much faster here in order to bring Germany, but also Europe and NATO, back up to a target level that is sufficient if we are threatened.

Euronews: Where do we stand on the Skyranger? The systems have been ordered, but will they arrive in time? How fast is it going now?

Papperger: Yes, on the Skyranger – and this is really a narrative that keeps coming up – the situation is that under the contract we have to start series deliveries in 2027. And they will be delivered; at the moment we are only looking at minimal delays.

There are a number of technologies we have to update: the chassis, the radar technology and the missiles, which have to be integrated.

But I am firmly convinced that together with the BAAINBw (the Federal Office of Bundeswehr Equipment, Information Technology and In-Service Support), and with the ministry as well, we will find a good solution in this area.

Our people are working on it day and night and, as you know, capacity in the Skyranger segment is being expanded massively. From the end of next year we will be building, or will be able to build, up to 400 a year. So I have no concerns at all there.

Euronews: There is a joint venture for deep-strike capabilities. How far along are you?

Papperger: The joint venture is, on one side, with Destinus; on the other, it is what we are doing with Lockheed Martin. With Lockheed Martin we are working in the field of artillery rockets. We are developing cruise missiles with Destinus. These two joint ventures are in the final phase before signature, and we expect to receive the first order for the cruise missiles at the end of this year or the beginning of next.

Euronews: Shouldn't we be building simpler systems, but more of them? Isn't that what the war in Ukraine shows?

Papperger: We are doing that as well, but in some areas it does not help me. If you look at the performance of a Skyranger today, it can shoot down a missile flying at Mach 3. You cannot do that with an interceptor round, and you cannot do it with a simple system.

And if you talk to the Chief of the German Army today, he will tell you: "In two years' time the threat will look completely different." The Skyranger really gives you multiple capabilities. We cannot achieve that with our interceptor solution or our simpler systems.

We also have, for example, .50-calibre guns with which we can shoot down light drones, category 1 drones. But once you are confronted with, say, jet-powered drones, it becomes extremely difficult to fight them. That is why we are convinced that a sustainable solution is the better one.

Euronews: How big a driver of employment is the arms industry, and Rheinmetall in particular?

Papperger: I think we are an important engine of job creation. At the moment, excluding the civilian division, around 34,000 people work at Rheinmetall. We are growing by a net 10,000 employees a year, and our goal is to reach 70,000 by 2030, with a supply chain employing a further 210,000 people. So if you add that up, that is almost 300,000 people. That is a jobs engine.

Euronews: How quickly can arms and ammunition production be ramped up – for companies like Rheinmetall?

Papperger: We are already doing it; we have proved it, for example in ammunition. In medium-calibre ammunition we have gone from under one million to four million rounds. In artillery ammunition we have increased from 70,000 to 1.5 million rounds. In tank ammunition we are now at 240,000 rounds, up from 40,000, 50,000, 60,000, depending on the year. So we are doing it. And what we are doing now is doubling our lorry production.

In other words, the number of logistic and tactical vehicles is now more than doubling. So we are doing that. At the moment, though, we do not have the orders to do even more. Rheinmetall has a six-year investment programme worth 30 billion euros, and the sums we are investing right now are enormous. That is why the signal we have again sent today is so important: that the minister is here, that he is personally engaged, and that we are not only building up capacity, but that this capacity will be used in the long term so that people have secure jobs.

For me that is a very strong signal, a very, very positive signal, and it also reassures me somewhat that the federal government is really living up to its responsibilities here.

Euronews: What comes next? Drones have been a major topic recently. What is the next frontier – space, which is already a key domain, or combat robots, humanoid robots?

Papperger: Robots will come, that much is clear. We have a research centre in Bremen for humanoid robots and we are working on them. We do not yet have any series products, which is why we have not yet gone public with them. But we are investing a lot of money there. Space is another area where we are investing heavily, in satellite construction on the one hand, but also in communications processing.

That means all the information we receive from satellites has to be processed properly. And drones are here to stay, and the rest will also remain. We still need all of it. For combined-arms operations you need artillery, armoured forces, conventional ammunition, drones and missiles.

The only question is how much of each you need. You have to get the mix right. And that will change – the quantities in each area will shift.

A note in our own right: you can also watch the latest Euronews exclusive report on the German armoured brigade in Lithuania: